Law Roundtable
Exploring the region between Law and Economics.
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July 2, 2009, 5:44 pm, 520621
You may recall that this is the case in which our coblogger Orin Kerr (currently on leave from the blog because of his temporary government position) participated; he has written the...
July 2, 2009, 5:44 pm, 520622
Douglas Kmiec, who served in the Justice Department's Office of Legal Counsel during two Republican Administrations and headed up the legal advisory team for Mitt Romney's presidential bid, will...
July 2, 2009, 5:44 pm, 520620
The WSJ reports the cost of taxpayer funded trips by members of Congress has been increasing dramatically. Costs are up 50 percent since the Democrats took control of Congress in...
July 2, 2009, 5:44 pm, 520619
I have been reading David Denby's book, Snark. I have some problems with that book, but they are essentially the same ones that the reviewers have talked about, viz., that...
July 2, 2009, 5:44 pm, 520617
there lay a mysterious cipher -- a coded message that appears to have remained unsolved. Until now." That's the start of a very interesting article in Wall Street Journal. Thanks...
July 2, 2009, 5:44 pm, 520618
On Monday, Benjamin Wittes and Jack Goldsmith had an op-ed in the Washington Post arguing that the Obama Administration should not replicate the Bush Administration's executive unilateralism in national security...
July 2, 2009, 5:44 pm, 520616
The June unemployment numbers are in and they're bad. Although May gave some hope because the job losses had begun to slow down, they picked again in June. The overall trend the last three months is still an improvement over...
July 2, 2009, 5:44 pm, 520615
Despite some earlier suggestions that the Obama administration may implement a substantial roll-back of the "conscious rule" for health care workers, recent comments by the President suggest a more limited retreat from the recent Bush expansion of the right to...
July 2, 2009, 5:43 pm, 520614
Clusterstock is a finance news site with a very pro-capitalist readership. Read the comments if you want to see the anti-banking sentiment. When a bunch of capitalists agree that banks are robbing people, something very criminal is ocurring.
There are some good comments regarding the shady practice of overdraft fees. ...
July 2, 2009, 3:44 pm, 520529
Susan B. Boyd & Claire Young (both of the University of British Columbia Faculty of Law) have posted Feminism, Law, and Public Policy: Family Feuds and Taxing Times, 42 Osgoode Hall L.J. 545 (2004), on SSRN. Here is the abstract: This article offers a retrospective analysis of feminist research on...
July 2, 2009, 3:44 pm, 520528
Alabama Tax Prof Susan Pace Hamill announced yesterday that she is running for the House District 63 seat in the Alabama Legislature. Tuscaloosa News: UA Law Professor Announces Bid for Legislature: Hamill, a Democrat, on Wednesday listed the core principles that she said compelled her to seek public office. “I...
July 2, 2009, 3:44 pm, 520527
New Web sites and blogs of note for legal professionals:
Typography for Lawyers. Graphic designer turned
civil litigator Matthew Butterick says that for a profession that depends so heavily on writing, legal typography is often poor. His site aims to change that. [Hat tip to
Colette Vogele.]
July 2, 2009, 1:44 pm, 520433
If you're interested in writing about the subject -- or if you want to suggest topics to incoming staffers on your law journal --check out my Implementing the Right To...
July 2, 2009, 1:44 pm, 520432
Igor Barenboim (Graduate Student, Harvard University, Department of Economics) & Loukas Karabarbounis (Ph.D. Candidate, Harvard University, Department of Economics) have posted One Dollar, One Vote on SSRN. Here is the abstract: We revisit the relationship between inequality and redistribution in a panel of advanced OECD countries. Using panel data methods...
July 2, 2009, 1:44 pm, 520431
Business Week: Will Tax Breaks Boost Jobs?, by Jessica Silver-Greenberg: With the economy slumping and unemployment approaching 10%, states are kicking corporate tax incentives into overdrive. In the past year they've doled out a record $50 billion to spur job growth. Cash-strapped locales are depending indirectly on federal aid to...
July 2, 2009, 1:44 pm, 520430
July 2, 2009, 1:43 pm, 520429
Posted by D. Daniel Sokol John Connor of Purdue University Applied and Agricultural Economics tells the always interesting story of Global Cartels Redux: The Amino Acid Lysine Antitrust Litigation 1996. ABSTRACT: This paper tells the story of the global lysine...
July 2, 2009, 11:45 am, 520321
The Judicial Council of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Third Circuit, which was charged with reviewing the judicial misconduct complaint against Judge Alex Kozinski of the U.S. Court of...
July 2, 2009, 11:45 am, 520320
The Delhi High Court has held unconstitutional a colonial-era law that provides: "Whoever voluntarily has carnal intercourse against the order of nature with any man, woman or animal, shall be...
July 2, 2009, 11:44 am, 520319
July 2, 2009, 11:44 am, 520318
July 2, 2009, 11:44 am, 520317
July 2, 2009, 11:43 am, 520316
Posted by D. Daniel Sokol Sandrine Corvoisier (European Central Bank) and Reint Eberhard Gropp (European Business School) explain Contestability, Technology and Banking. ABSTRACT: We estimate the effect of internet penetration on retail bank margins in the euro area. Based on...
July 2, 2009, 11:43 am, 520315
Posted by D. Daniel Sokol Keith Hylton (BU Law) provides A Comment on the Intel Fine. ABSTRACT: On May 13th the European Commission levied a fine of $1.45 billion on Intel for violating its competition law rules by offering volume-based...
July 2, 2009, 9:44 am, 520206
A recent survey of senior in-house attorneys asked them to select the obstacles they face to making effective use of productivity metrics. The survey, by LexisNexis CounselLink entitled “Effects of the Current Economic Downturn on U.S. Law Departments” 2009 at 17, offered respondents six choices. ...
July 2, 2009, 9:44 am, 520205
Of the more than 300 metaposts I have compiled, 40-50 related pairs of them I have combined into what I refer to as Metapost Pluses. Each Metapost Plus has more than 10 posts, organized logically, and with several recommendations at the start for general counsel. Eventually, ...
July 2, 2009, 9:44 am, 520204
The War of “Legal” Department vs. “Law” Department! The brawl over “Associate” vs “Assistant” General Counsel!! The vicious struggle between backers of general counsel (plural) and general counsels. The endless and cruel conflicts over word choices that go to the heart of one’s self and ...
July 2, 2009, 9:44 am, 520203
Having collected posts on several other legal departments whose management efforts have been well-publicized, I decided to tally them for Microsoft. Setting aside any references on Law Department Management Blog to the software licensed by Microsoft, I found 30 references to what that company’s enormous and active legal ...
July 2, 2009, 9:44 am, 520202
Johan Åhr’s article about Primo Levi in the J. of the Historical Soc., Vol. 9, June 2009 at 161, discusses historicism and broad statements. Historicism is “a theory that events are determined or influenced by conditions and inherent processes beyond the control of humans.” Marxism, ...
July 2, 2009, 9:44 am, 520199
An article in the European Lawyer, April 2009 at 18, quotes Sandra Mulrain of Georgia-Pacific, now owned by Koch Industries. Referring to changes brought about by the bad economy, she explained a tougher attitude in legal department regarding retentions of outside counsel. “It’s no longer ...
July 2, 2009, 9:44 am, 520201
A new blog dedicated to legal holds cited one of my posts, so I wanted to thank them and list their blog. The site is by a New York attorney, John Jablonski.
Second, I found that I have accumulated four posts on litigation hold notices ...
July 2, 2009, 9:44 am, 520200
F-statistic analyses. The F-statistic tests the equality of the means in a group of figures, which is used sometimes to separate sets of figures into categories, as mentioned in Laura Empson, ed., Managing The Modern Law Firm: New Challenges New Perspectives (Oxford Univ. Press 2007) ...
July 2, 2009, 9:44 am, 520198
For a retreat that I facilitated, the lawyers of the department suggested several dysfunctional situations that they wanted to improve. All of them evidence failures of teamwork or collegiality.
(See my post of April 5, 2009: teamwork and collaboration internally with 16 references.).
Lawyers failing to get ...
July 2, 2009, 9:44 am, 520197
After a journalist, Amy Miller, called me to ask about Jeff Carr’s Litigation Value Challenge (See my post of May 13, 2009: process announced at SuperConference.) I wondered why the turnout was not greater among large firms. Several reasons occurred to me.
It could be that the ...
July 2, 2009, 9:44 am, 520196
In mid-June of this year, the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals decided the Richerson v. Beckon case, involving a First Amendment claim by a public school teacher after she was demoted for comments she posted on her personal blog (article...
July 2, 2009, 7:44 am, 520116
The U.S. District Court for the Northern District of Illinois has vacated the two-year prison sentence given to a CPA who plead guilty to obstructing and impeding the administration of the federal tax laws on the ground of inffective assistance of counsel because her lawyer did not retain a tax...
July 2, 2009, 7:43 am, 520115
Posted by D. Daniel Sokol Caron Beaton-Wells and Brent Fisse (both University of Melbourne Law School) have posted Criminalising Serious Cartel Conduct: Issues of Law and Policy. ABSTRACT: In January 2008 the government released an Exposure Draft Bill and associated...
July 2, 2009, 5:44 am, 520063
Albany Law School is looking to hire full-time faculty members in several areas, including Tax and Trusts and Estates: We are willing to consider all qualified candidates, including those with no prior teaching experience, for appointment at the Assistant, Associate or Full Professor level, as appropriate. Albany Law School is...
July 2, 2009, 3:44 am, 519993
Leonard "Jay" Hite (KPMG) has posted two tax papers on SSRN: The Cohan Rule and Research Credit Claims: Testimony as Evidence Establishing the Amount of Creditable Expenditures, 10 J. Tax Prac. & Proc. 31 (Dec. 2008–Jan. 2009) Export Controls and the R&D Tax Credit: Practitioners Beware!, 122 Tax Notes 869...
July 2, 2009, 3:43 am, 519992
A recent post at the ABA Journal indicates that Chief Legal Officers are not buying into talk of a “new legal model”:
The CLOs were asked to give firms a score ranging from a low of 0 to a high of 10 to indicate how serious they think they are about ...
July 2, 2009, 1:44 am, 519959
Marriage law in my beloved Commonwealth of Virginia has come a long way since the days when its ban on interracial marriage was struck down by the Supreme Court in
July 2, 2009, 1:44 am, 519958
The Supreme Court has declined to settle a split between the 7th Circuit and the 9th Circuit on the applicability of anti-discrimination policies at various law schools (Hastings, Montana, Sourth Illinois) to the Christian Legal Society's prohibition of gay and lesbian students from serving in leadership roles. Inside Higher Ed:...
July 1, 2009, 11:44 pm, 519947
Property scholar Ben Barros has an excellent post at Propertyprofblog summarizing the issues at stake in Stop the Beach Renourishment v. Florida Department of Environmental Protection, the important takings...
July 1, 2009, 11:44 pm, 519945
Should on-campus recruiting at law schools be delayed until the spring? That question was a major topic of discussion during a recent roundtable on the future of legal hiring that brought together law firm leaders, law school officials and general counsel in Washington, D.C. Many of the participants agreed that ...
July 1, 2009, 11:44 pm, 519946
Lawyers seeking employment must have a Web presence, said speakers at a recent seminar for unemployed lawyers hosted by the State Bar of Georgia -- but their ideas varied on which avenues to take. Lawyer and social media enthusiast David A. Barrett advocated spreading one's name far and wide on ...
July 1, 2009, 11:44 pm, 519943
Goodwin Procter partner David Pitofsky was appointed Monday as receiver of the $1.7 billion Ascot fund put together by financier J. Ezra Merkin, almost all of which was invested with Bernard Madoff and lost. Pitofsky was appointed receiver in a lawsuit brought by the New York attorney general's office seeking ...
July 1, 2009, 11:44 pm, 519944
In recent years, the Supreme Court has been quick to nullify federal and state laws, agency rules and presidential actions, say Jenner & Block's Paul M. Smith and Joshua Block. They write that it was thus an unexpected -- but welcome -- development for the Court to rely exclusively on ...
July 1, 2009, 11:44 pm, 519941
An eBay ad's claim that a used Mercedes was "gorgeous" was not enough to sustain claims of fraud and breach of warranty filed by a disgruntled buyer after problems surfaced, a New York court has ruled. "While the advertisement did describe the car as 'gorgeous,' this generalized expression was merely ...
July 1, 2009, 11:44 pm, 519942
One month after a management shake-up at Mayer Brown, the firm announced that Richard Spehr, co-head of its New York litigation group, will take the helm of the firm's 200-lawyer New York office. The appointment comes amid a raft of changes at Mayer Brown, including its adoption of a new ...
July 1, 2009, 11:44 pm, 519940
A pair of witnesses testified at a court hearing Wednesday that reputed Pennsylvania mob boss William "Billy" D'Elia had envelopes delivered to disgraced former Luzerne County President Judge Conahan at the courthouse and that Conahan met repeatedly with D'Elia and another admitted felon to discuss fixing cases. The Pennsylvania Supreme ...
July 1, 2009, 11:44 pm, 519939
Former clients of a Cleveland-based law firm have convinced an Ohio appeals court to revive their claim that the firm duped them into a low-ball settlement in a legal malpractice case. Reversing a lower court, the three-judge panel threw out summary judgment in favor of Javitch Block, finding that the ...
July 1, 2009, 11:44 pm, 519938
A New York federal judge has rejected a recusal motion filed by former Bonanno family acting boss Vincent Basciano, marking perhaps the first citation of the Supreme Court's recent Caperton ruling. The judge rejected the argument that Caperton created a new standard for recusal motions, writing, "What was new in ...
July 1, 2009, 11:44 pm, 519937
Walking into the 60-foot Burning Man effigy isn't a safe thing to do. Just ask Anthony Beninati, who literally got burned in 2005 after venturing too close to the giant wooden figure while on his third trip to the Burning Man festival in Nevada's Black Rock Desert. He sued for ...
July 1, 2009, 11:44 pm, 519936
A federal judge has enjoined the publication of a purported meditation on J.D. Salinger's "The Catcher in the Rye." New York federal Judge Deborah Batts said Wednesday that "60 Years Later: Coming Through the Rye" by Swedish author Fredrik Colting violated Salinger's copyright. She found that Colting borrowed liberally from ...
July 1, 2009, 11:44 pm, 519935
Alston & Bird is cutting associate pay by $5,000 across the board for the remainder of the year -- a reduction equal to about 7 percent of annual starting pay. The cuts, effective July 15, follow other cost-saving measures undertaken by the firm since the end of last year, including ...
July 1, 2009, 11:44 pm, 519934
For all the talk about change, corporate counsel are finding it hard to believe that outside firms are serious about rethinking their approach to client service and billing. In a survey by Altman Weil, 75 percent of the responding chief legal officers rated their law firms between zero to four ...
July 1, 2009, 11:44 pm, 519932
The Michigan Supreme Court has come down hard on gadget-happy jurors, banning all electronic communications by jurors during trial, including tweets on Twitter, text messages and Google searches. The ruling, which takes effect Sept. 1, will require Michigan judges for the first time to instruct jurors not to use any ...
July 1, 2009, 11:44 pm, 519933
Reed Smith hadn't invested enough in information infrastructure and processes such as document retrieval were taking too long. To take control of its data before it took hold of them, the firm implemented Recommind's MindServer Search platform as its knowledge management base.
July 1, 2009, 11:44 pm, 519931
Orrick, Herrington & Sutcliffe dumped lockstep associate promotion on Wednesday and began assigning associates to one of three tiers within its partner track: associate, managing associate or senior associate. Orrick will also create a nonpartner-track option for associates, and boost the number of staff attorneys doing more routine work like ...
July 1, 2009, 11:44 pm, 519930
A year ago, Lehman Brothers appeared solvent, Bernard Madoff was a trusted name and the global economic crisis was still called a downturn. Even then, pro bono advocates worried that altruism would be a casualty of hard times at the country's top law firms. Judging by firms' performance last year, ...
July 1, 2009, 11:44 pm, 519929
Marty Malin writes about a special call for papers in the Employee Rights & Employment Policy Journal: Employee Rights & Employment Policy Journal is planning a special issue honoring Clyde Summers, the Jefferson Fordham Professor of Law Emeritus at the...
July 1, 2009, 11:44 pm, 519928
The New York Times is reporting on someone rejected from the bar because of excessive student loans. The story is complicated--involving tragic injuries, accusations of excessive fees, and his failure to make any payments--so you be the judge. My only...
July 1, 2009, 11:44 pm, 519927
Dan Slater--former author of the Wall Street Journal Legal Blog--has a piece in the New York Times singing the praises of law firm layoffs. Because I've personally witnessed too many students fail to get jobs or had offers withdrawn, my...
July 1, 2009, 11:43 pm, 519926
You suspect an employee is leaking inside information. An investigation reveals that the employee accessed a personal Web-based e-mail account from a company computer and that the login information has been recovered. Can you log into that account and read its e-mail content?
Read all about it at
July 1, 2009, 9:44 pm, 519912
New Web sites and blogs of note:
Legal Holds and Trigger Events, a blog dedicated to cases, insights, developments and best practices relating to the development and implementation of legal holds, writeen by John J. Jablonski, a partner with
Goldberg Segalla in Buffalo, N.Y.
Owners, Borrowers & Thieves ...
July 1, 2009, 7:44 pm, 519898
From Upton v. Upton, 1996 WL 397706 (Conn. Super. Ct.) (emphasis added):...
July 1, 2009, 7:44 pm, 519897
Since not everyone is a Twitter fan, I reproduce here a selection of my recent Tweets.
RT @jordan_law21 New at Law21: measuring lawyer productivity: http://tr.im/qjpD || also consider actual outcome v. expected / hoped for
RT @glambert ‘Alternative Fees - “How To” Tech’ - http://bit.ly/NFYQK - there’s Redwood, then … ...
July 1, 2009, 7:44 pm, 519896
The two major U.S. legal research companies, West and LexisNexis, both separately announced new initiatives and new Web sites to help laid off lawyers as they make the transition to new jobs. I have more details in a post I published today at Legal Blog Watch,
West, Lexis Offer ...
July 1, 2009, 7:44 pm, 519895
The anti-SLAPP statute (Strategic Lawsuit Against Public Participation), California Code of Civil Procedure section 425.16, is commonly used outside the employment litigation context to test the merits of a lawsuit at an early stage in the litigation. A recent case, McConnell v. Innovative Artists Talent ...
July 1, 2009, 7:44 pm, 519894
On June 29, 2009, Governor Schwarzenegger signed into law California's Electronic Discovery Act, which is effective immediately. All discovery propounded or responded to must now comply with the new law. These rules are very similar to the recent revisions to ...
July 1, 2009, 5:44 pm, 519871
The following was, I'm told by ADL headquarters, sent today to the Omaha World-Herald by Alan Potash, Director of the Plains States Regional Office of the Anti-Defamation League:...
July 1, 2009, 5:44 pm, 519869
I'm doing a pro bono appellate case in Nebraska, and I'd love to chat confidentially to any readers who might be inclined to offer some free advice, especially about petitions for...
July 1, 2009, 5:44 pm, 519870
Perricone v. Perricone, from the Connecticut Supreme Court, officially released a week ago. Seems quite right to me as to permanent injunctions such as this one. For more on the...
July 1, 2009, 3:44 pm, 519798
The the five-page Michael Jackson will is available here and here. For commentary on the will, see: ABC News New York Times Rolling Stone USA Today
July 1, 2009, 3:44 pm, 519797
Ross Runkel (Employment Law Memo) has a round-up of three employment-related cases granted by the Supreme Court the last couple of weeks. The cases involve the LMRDA, ERISA and the False Claims Act. Here's a sample of Ross' summaries of...
July 1, 2009, 3:44 pm, 519796
The D.C. Circuit just announced that it is denying the NLRB's petition for rehearing en banc in Laurel Baye. The order also noted that there was no request for a vote among the judges [Download Laurel Baye Denial of En...
July 1, 2009, 3:43 pm, 519795
As this AP article explains, there is a long history of trade disputes involving the U.S. catfish industry and its Vietnamese competitors, including anti-dumping duties and labelling regulations. The latest chapter is particularly interesting, though, because it gets at what I think could be a growth industry for trade ...
July 1, 2009, 3:43 pm, 519794
Bernie Madoff surrended himself to authorities. He cooperated fully. He put up no fight. He got 150 years in prison - a death sentence.
J. Allen Stanford, who has not yet been convicted, returned from a foreign country to fight the criminal charges against him. He could have fled, ...
July 1, 2009, 3:43 pm, 519793
Posted by D. Daniel Sokol A new article in this month's American Economics Review worth reading is Nathan H. Miller (DOJ), Strategic Leniency and Cartel Enforcement. Ken Heyer, this was a good hire for DOJ - kudos to you and...
July 1, 2009, 1:44 pm, 519723
Roger Simon writes (thanks to InstaPundit for the pointer):...
July 1, 2009, 1:44 pm, 519722
Overlawyered, founded by my friend Walter Olson, turns ten today. I think it was the first legal blog, and I know it's still one of the best....
July 1, 2009, 1:44 pm, 519721
Michael Doran (Georgetown) has posted or updated several of his tax papers on SSRN: Managers, Shareholders, and the Corporate Double Tax, 95 Va. L. Rev. 517 (2009) Tax Penalties and Tax Compliance, 46 Harv. J. Legis. 111 (2009) Legislative Compromise and Tax Transition Policy, 74 U. Chi. L. Rev. 545...
July 1, 2009, 1:44 pm, 519719
Entry Level Hires Ilan Benshalom (Northwestern VAP) to Hebrew University, Israel Sam Brunson (Willkie Farr, New York) to Loyola-Chicago Mirit Eyal-Cohen (UCLA SJD) to Pittsburgh Benjamin Leff (Harvard VAP) to American Sagit Leviner (Tel Aviv University, Israel, VAP) to Ono Academic College, Faculty of Law, Israel Shuyi Oei (Bingham McCutchen,...
July 1, 2009, 1:44 pm, 519720
Deferral of incoming associate classes unfortunately has become all too common at many law firms. Miami is the first law school to offer an array of incentives for ILs to defer enrolling until Fall 2010: Miami website ABA Journal Above the Law Faculty Lounge JD Journal
July 1, 2009, 1:44 pm, 519718
July 1, 2009, 1:44 pm, 519717
July 1, 2009, 1:44 pm, 519716
July 1, 2009, 1:44 pm, 519715
The Wisconsin Law Journal recently had an article looking at the proposed Restatement of Employment Law and the Labor Law Group's opposition to the project. The article features comments from people on both sides, including blogger emeritus Paul Secunda (Marquette)...
July 1, 2009, 1:44 pm, 519714
On June 26, 2009, the United States Citizenship and Immigration Services announced that the current Employment Eligibility Verification Form I-9 (Rev. 02/02/09) linked below will remain valid for usage beyond its current expiration date of 06/30/2009 by employers in verifying the employment eligibility of employees.
...
July 1, 2009, 1:44 pm, 519713
On June 29, 2009, a California Court of Appeal enforced an employer's vacation plan as it was written rather than as the employee asked the Court to interpret it. Accordingly, the Court dismissed plaintiff's claims.
...
July 1, 2009, 1:43 pm, 519712
Posted by D. Daniel Sokol I just watched the preview of The Informant! directed by Steven Soderbergh and starring Matt Damon. The preview looks great. The movie is about ADM informant Mark Whitacre of the famous lysine cartel. Antitrust has...
July 1, 2009, 11:44 am, 519627
Johan Åhr’s article about Primo Levi in the J. of the Historical Soc., Vol. 9, June 2009 at 161, discusses historicism and broad statements. Historicism is “a theory that events are determined or influenced by conditions and inherent processes beyond the control of humans.” Marxism, for example, ...
July 1, 2009, 11:44 am, 519626
A new blog dedicated to legal holds cited one of my posts, so I wanted to thank them and list their blog. The site is by a New York attorney, John Jablonski.
Second, I found that I have accumulated four posts on litigation hold notices since my ...
July 1, 2009, 11:44 am, 519624
An article in the European Lawyer, April 2009 at 18, quotes Sandra Mulrain of Georgia-Pacific, now owned by Koch Industries. Referring to changes brought about by the bad economy, she explained a tougher attitude in legal department regarding retentions of outside counsel. “It’s no longer just a ...
July 1, 2009, 11:44 am, 519622
After a journalist, Amy Miller, called me to ask about Jeff Carr’s Litigation Value Challenge (See my post of May 13, 2009: process announced at SuperConference.) I wondered why the turnout was not greater among large firms. Several reasons occurred to me.
It could be that the bigger firms ...
July 1, 2009, 11:44 am, 519623
For a retreat that I facilitated, the lawyers of the department suggested several dysfunctional situations that they wanted to improve. All of them evidence failures of teamwork or collegiality.
(See my post of April 5, 2009: teamwork and collaboration internally with 16 references.).
Lawyers failing to get another lawyer ...
